Paul, not Christ?

My apologies to Jon for posting on top of his recent posts. But I kind of feel like I should work on finishing what I started earlier.
This is my second post detailing my thoughts on Lakeview Bible Church’s Statement of Doctrine. Instead of sharing my specific thoughts right here, I’m going to detail their beliefs the way I understand them. I will save my own thoughts for the comments section, should it come up. (Feel free to use the comments section to challenge or ask questions about what is posted -- now and always.)

K. Mission
The mission and commission of the Church, which is the Body of Christ,
is to follow the revelation of the truth which our Lord Jesus Christ in
glory revealed to the Apostle Paul for us. That gospel which Paul called “my gospel” in contrast to the gospel of the circumcision (Israel) is God’s message for today.
So, as Paul, we should strive to preach the gospel in the regions
beyond where Christ is not named.
(Romans 2:16, 11:13, 15:16, 15:20 and 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:16 and 11:1;
2 Corinthians 10:16; 2 Corinthians 5:14-21; Galatians 1:6, 9, 11 and 2:2, 5:7;
Ephesians 3:1-2; Philippians 3:17, 1 Thessalonians 1:6;
1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11 and 2:2 &8)

There are 3 parts to this mission statement. I will break them down for you along with the applicable verses from those listed in their statement of faith. I am listing these verses out here to get your thoughts moving. My understanding of their points in green.

1. The mission and commission of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, is to follow the revelation of the truth which our Lord Jesus Christ in glory revealed to the Apostle Paul for us.

(Paul was given special revelation to become God’s minister to the Gentiles. These are the teachings the church is to follow.)

Galatians 1:6-12 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 3:1 1For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

2. That gospel which Paul called “my gospel” in contrast to the gospel of the circumcision (Israel) is God’s message for today.

(Paul was given a new gospel to preach among the Gentiles. This new gospel was the special revelation that God had given to him – previously a mystery (unknown, hidden by God). He refers to it as “my gospel” and the “Gospel of the Uncircumcision” in contrast to the gospel that was given by Jesus and was being preached by the disciples.)

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

3. So, as Paul, we should strive to preach the gospel in the regions beyond where Christ is not named.

(Paul was given a new gospel and a new audience. Since we belong to the new audience, saved under the new gospel, our example is not the disciples’ following Jesus’s command to preach His gospel and baptize, but rather our example is Paul. Paul himself told us to be followers of him, and he believed his mission was to preach his gospel to everyone who had not heard it.)

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man’s line of things made ready to our hand.
2 Corinthians 5:14-21 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

-- YourBrother

Well Come

I feel the need to write a quick post to welcome all the new readers. I found out tonight, in a rather surprising way, that what I thought was written to a few, has now been read by many!
There should not be any secrets on this blog, though I will confess that some of the posts over the last 3 years were not intended for a larger audience. Many times postings were added as the Lord was working on me in specific areas. The long time reader of this blog has been able to hear and see those things in progress.

Karen and I had a question and answer time with the church tonight regarding my qualifications as an Elder candidate. It turns out that this blog was being read by people that I would have never guessed had access to it. This is not a bad thing, though I know some posts may not be understood in the context in which they were written. That being said, feel free to browse through the last few years of my private (or since it's on the net, not so private) life.

Let me recommend two of my favorite posts to the new readers to this blog:

Aug 2008 "Anything dad can do..."
Dec 15 2007 "Deer me"

If you use the links on the left of this post you can quickly jump to a previous year and then look for the month and title of the post you would like to read.

In addition, you can comment on any post you would like to weigh in on by clicking on the "__ comments" under each posting. Hope to hear from you soon,
Jon

He who now letteth

Since it appears that controversial topics (Your Brother) are generating the comments this week, I have decided to add another subject. In my reading this week I came across the following viewpoint:

"Another argument for the pretribulation rapture is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7, “And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way” (ASV). The standard Dispensationalist understanding of this passage is that the restrainer spoken of is the Holy Spirit. Pretribulationists argue that since the Holy Sprit dwells and works to restrain evil by means of the church, a removal of the Spirit entails a removal of the church. Once the church is raptured the Antichrist will be revealed. Although this passage is a difficult one that has resulted in many different interpretations, the idea that this passage teaches the removal of the Holy Spirit is theologically impossible and totally contradicts the Dispensationalist’s own interpretation of the events that are supposed to take place during the tribulation. After the rapture a Jewish remnant of 144,000 is converted to Christ. These Jews will be the greatest evangelists the world has ever seen, who bring multitudes to Christ from every nation. What is wrong with this understanding of Scripture? It places the Dispensationalist in the position of either denying his own interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 or of denying the biblical teaching regarding the Holy Spirit’s role in converting sinners. The Bible teaches that no one can be converted without the regenerating and drawing power of the Holy Spirit (Ezek. 36:25-26; Jn 1:13; 3:5-8; Ac. 5:31; 11:18; 16:13-14; 1 Cor. 2:12-14; 2 Cor. 4:6; Eph. 2:1, 5; Col. 2:11; Tit. 3:5). Yet, Pretribulationists teach that the 144,000 Jews are converted after the departure of the Holy Spirit. They also teach that the preaching of these converted Jews will be a hundred times more fruitful without the Holy Spirit than the preaching of the church with the Holy Spirit throughout the so-called church age. Multitudes are said to be converted to Christ from every nation during the absence of the Holy Spirit in only 1260 days! The truth is that if the Holy Spirit is removed, there would be no converts during the tribulation—not even one."

Where is the error?

For They Shall Inherit the Earth

The other day I was sitting with my girls in the family room while I was reading "The New-England Primer" (Boston 1777, Patriotic Textbook Series). Yes, I still have more to learn! Unfortunately it has no chapter on editing. However, as I was reading, I came across a page that gave me pause.

Really, there was only one statement on the page that made me wonder. I will include the page here to see if you can pick it out...

Who was the firft man?............................. Adam
Who was the firft woman?........................ Eve
Who was the firft Murderer?................... Cain
Who was the firft Tranflated?.................. Enoch
Who was the oldeft Man?......................... Methufelah
Who built the Ark?.................................... Noah
Who was the Patienteft Man?.................. Job
Who was the Meekeft Man?.................... Mofes
Who led Ifrael into Canaan? ....................Jofhua
Who was the ftrongest Man?................... Sampfon
Who killed Goliah?.................................... David
Who was the wifeft Man?......................... Solomon
Who was in the Whale's Belly?................. Jonah
Who faves loft Men?.................................. Jefus Chrift
Who is Jefus Chrift? ................................. .The Son of God
Who was the Mother of Chrift?.............. .Mary
Who betrayed his Mafter?........................ Judas
Who denied his Mafter?............................ Peter
Who was the firft Chriftian Martyr?....... Stephen
Who was chief Apoftle of the Gentiles?... Paul

Overwhelmed

I suppose I should introduce myself. I am YourBrother. The reason I am YourBrother is because in response to this Blog's main author (Jon), I am informing him that I am his brother (by blood.) And in relation to you (the assumed reader) I am Your Brother (in Christ.)
I realize I am not creative, entertaining, or humorous. I enjoy reading this blog because Jon is all of those things. But since he asked me to post from time to time, you have to scroll over my posts to read what he has to say. Or, if you would like to get lost in the ramblings of my mind, or perhaps fancy the challenge of trying to unravel my tangled thoughts; you are welcome to read my posts also.

Okay... I thought it would be fairly easy to share my thoughts on the 3 excerpts I posted from the Lakeview Bible Church's Statement of Doctrine. Turns out it is rather overwhelming. There is so much background that goes into it, I’m not sure if this is the best format for expounding. I will try to share my thoughts in an abbreviated fashion. I will be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested. I will start with baptism.

1. F. One Baptism
   We believe that the Holy Spirit places all believers today
   into the Body of Christ by one spiritual baptism.
2. This divine baptism takes place at salvation and identifies every believer with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.
3. Since this one baptism promotes the unity of the Spirit,
   Lakeview Bible Church does not practice water baptism,
   resting in the total sufficiency of the finish work of Jesus Christ
   for a complete and blameless standing before God.
   (Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 1:17-18 and 12:12-13; Ephesians 4:3-6; Colossians 2:9-12)

I think I understand why Lakeview Bible Church says they do not practice water baptism today. If you have not bothered to look up the verses listed, I will share them here. The baptism that Paul taught was not a water baptism, it was a spiritual one.

Romans 6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 12
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Colossians 2
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Corinthians 1
17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


Now this last verse raises an interesting question. If Paul wasn’t sent to baptize, why did Jesus say:
Matthew 28
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

I’m sure we ignore the truth of what Paul is saying by minimizing it, since it doesn’t fit what we’ve been taught. (“He must have just meant that baptizing wasn’t his MAIN goal, since baptism doesn’t really SAVE you.”)

Except that Jesus really said:
Mark 16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


And Peter, remembering what Christ had taught him said:
Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


For now, I suppose I can just say that Paul is preaching a different gospel than Jesus was commanding his disciples to preach at the end of the gospels. Paul was given a different message and a different audience.

Paul said:
Galatians 2
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

The verses above, and the verses below should give you an idea of what the gospel of the circumcision was about (gospel to the Jews).

Matthew 10
5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23But… …Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 4
23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,

Matthew 24
3But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And this should tell you what Paul’s gospel was about:
1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Water baptism belongs to a different gospel than the one Paul taught (and the one through which I was saved.)

Since I’m trying to keep my post here fairly condensed, here’s a good read if you want a thorough breakdown according to a mid-Acts dispensational view: http://www.dispensationalberean.com/teaching/webb/water.html
It is 8 pages long, so you will have to click through the multiple pages for the whole idea.

Pull up your Breeches

I bought a new version of the English Bible a couple of weeks ago. I have enjoyed reading it while relaxing in the evening. Those that know me well may be surprised that I have purchased a version other than the KJV.
The most interesting thing about this new version is that it is written in pretty modern English. There are a few verses however that don't use modern words. For instance, Genesis 3:7 (speaking of Adam and Eve) "Then the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig tree leaves together, and made themselves breeches."
This is why the Bible I bought, formally called "The Geneva Bible", is nicknamed "The Breeches Bible". I purchased a copy of the 1599 edition. The Geneva Bible was the English version used by our Founding Fathers. It is a very easy read though not as poetic as the King James. For those that think the Old English is beyond our ability to understand, this Bible version could change your thinking. I purchased mine (bonded leather) from: http://www.reformationbookstore.com/

(If the web address doesn't show up as a link, copy it and paste it in your browser)

If you like to compare Bible versions when you study the Word, purchase the Geneva Bible. I think you'll enjoy it.

Live and Learn

I just want to start out by welcoming myself back. Many of you probably forgot who I was. I am not going to make excuses other than to say that my computer crashed (it would not boot up) and I finally purchased another one this morning.
My next project is to try and recover my files from the hard drive of my previous computer. I'll bet there are people out there who back up their files in another location so that they don't find themselves in the predicament that I am currently in. Apparently I am not that type of person. Maybe I'll learn something from this experience?

I have been thinking about how to catch everyone up on what has been going on. I have an antelope story to tell (by the way, Karen makes delicious antelope stew), I saw a black bear in Tennessee, I shot a decent buck during bow season, Emily shot her first deer last week, my car broke down and I haven't been able to drive it, Thanksgiving came and went, I have missed every Pheasant that I have shot at (I have managed to bag some Quail), and I have been working on some projects at church. I am hoping to share some of these things with you in the near future, but alas, shotgun season for deer starts on Saturday. In addition to that, we have a family coming in from out of town to visit the church this weekend, I have a deacon meeting next week, I have a union meeting next week, we need to have our 2010 church financial plan finished in the next couple of weeks, the church has a question and answer time on Sunday evening with a prospective elder and his wife (Karen and I), and I am trying to help start up a new small group ministry. Oh yeah, and Christmas is coming. With that comes the holiday schedule.

On an unrelated topic, we started our corn stove two days ago. What a blessing that has been as we now have 10" of snow on the ground and the temperature is supposed to be ten below the next couple of nights. We did have an unseasonably warm November so that was an unexpected blessing.

Saturday evening the girls are performing a puppet show for a neighboring church. This evening we are having "puppet practice" in our home (prayer meeting was canceled due to the weather). Who knew that puppets needed to practice?

While I wait for the girls to prepare, I am going to load my Bible software on this new computer. I don't want to leave without giving a plug for "YourBrother" who has recently posted on this blog. Encourage him to continue by commenting on his posts! It seems his latest post ought to draw some feedback (especially from the Baptists).

Look what I found...

The following are two excerpts from the Statement of Doctrine from the Lakeview Bible Church in Carter Lake, IA. (Carter Lake, Iowa is kind of inside the city of Omaha.)
http://lakeviewreflections.org/index.php/About-Us/

The green text is my personal highlighting.

F. One Baptism
We believe that the Holy Spirit places all believers today
into the Body of Christ by one spiritual baptism.
This divine baptism takes place at salvation and identifies every believer
with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.
Since this one baptism promotes the unity of the Spirit,
Lakeview Bible Church does not practice water baptism,
resting in the total sufficiency of the finish work of Jesus Christ
for a complete and blameless standing before God.
(Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 1:17-18 and 12:12-13; Ephesians 4:3-6; Colossians 2:9-12)

K. Mission
The mission and commission of the Church, which is the Body of Christ,
is to follow the revelation of the truth which our Lord Jesus Christ in
glory revealed to the Apostle Paul for us. That gospel which Paul called “my gospel” in contrast to the gospel of the circumcision (Israel) is God’s message for today.
So, as Paul, we should strive to preach the gospel in the regions
beyond where Christ is not named.
(Romans 2:16, 11:13, 15:16, 15:20 and 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:16 and 11:1;
2 Corinthians 10:16; 2 Corinthians 5:14-21; Galatians 1:6, 9, 11 and 2:2, 5:7;
Ephesians 3:1-2; Philippians 3:17, 1 Thessalonians 1:6;
1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11 and 2:2 &8)

A church that identifies separate Israel gospel from Paul's gospel... AND doesn't believe in water baptism for today?
Now you're wondering about their take on communion?

F. The Lord’s Supper
The communion of the Lord’s Supper as revealed through
the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 is
for members of the Body of Christ to be observed “till he comes.”

I have my own thoughts on all three parts. Anyone else?

Apparently there is an affiliation of like-minded Grace churches and organizations. Check out this link (look at all of the ones listed for Ohio.) How did I never hear of this before? Some of them have REALLY bold statements of faith. You might like to check some of them out.
http://www.gmaf.org/churches.html

-YourBrother